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Guest: Michelle Affanato
Business Name: Affinity Management
Check out Michelle's Media:
Website: http://affinitymanagement.co/
Email: Michelle@affinitymanagement.co
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/michelle.affinitymanagement
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/michelle_affinitymgmt/
Michelle's Podcast: https://accelerateyourdentalpractice.podbean.com/
Other Mentions and Links:
Host: Michael Arias
Website: The Dental Marketer
Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/
Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society
My Key Takeaways:
- How do you find the perfect amount of experience in your new hires?
- When to hire, and how many people should you look to hire before your opening day?
- What training is essential before opening your doors? It's not about the quantity of patients coming through your door day one, it's about the quality.
- The is no such thing as down time in a startup practice - your open slots can be used for marketing!
- How to get your team comfortable with asking for deposits, and how effective are these?
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Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)
Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guest, Michelle Afanato. Michelle, how's it going?
Michelle: going great. It's going great.
Michael: Wonderful. Wonderful. Massachusetts. It's about to get real beautiful out there pretty soon
Michelle: here It is I love fall in Massachusetts. Probably like my favorite season.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah, it's really good It's like, you know, not too hot not too cold or anything. Just perfect.
Michelle: Perfect and very colorful.
Michael: Nice. Awesome. So Michelle, let's dive into a little bit of your area expertise But before we get into that, can you tell us how you? Cut to where you are right now.
Michelle: Yeah, I've been in dentistry since I was 15.
Ironically, like my mom was like, you need a job. So she just called the local dentist and I went in and I started pulling and filing charts on the weekends, then kind of learned the front desk, worked my way up, went to school to be a dental assistant, but was cross trained. So I knew the front, I knew the clinical, um, and I kind of like worked my way up and out of an office.
So I was office manager. I've done a lot of things. And finally, I was like, I think there's more for me. I need to to branch out and help people, not just 1 office, but multiple offices. So I did consulting for a little while, just here in New England with existing practices and acquisitions. But I was really drawn to the startups.
and so I left that for a little while, and then I went to work at a local bank and did the, um, financing for startups. I was kind of the person inside that was making sure they could repay the loan, kind of tracking the metrics for them. and then I went to a company, uh, I'm sure a lot of people know Ideal Practices, uh, that just worked with startups.
So I worked there for a while and got really, in tune with what the startup doctors are looking for, what they need to have a successful practice. And then most recently, about two years ago, I went out on my own. So now I can serve not just startups, but anybody looking to be like a first time practice owner, whether it's a startup or an acquisition.
Michael: So you've been in dentistry for Oh, wow. A lot
Michelle: of, a lot of years.
Michael: Yeah. For a minute now. Awesome. So then you are now working specifically as a consultant for startups and acquisitions or?
Michelle: That is correct. I mean, I, I do a lot of, team training too for, That I do for like a two week boot camp that I do to get them on boarded so they have a good foundation when they get into the practice. So
Michael: then Michelle, what's your area of expertise?
Michelle: My area of expertise is working with the dentist to help them. Understand the business side of the practice, right?
They go to school to be clinicians and great clinicians, but all of a sudden they want to own their own practice and that's a whole other world for them. Mm hmm.
Michael: Yeah, it's super different. And I remember when, um, I went out there one time to, with Ideal Practices to speak a little bit. You knew a lot. You can do a lot. Yeah. I can do a lot. So if you don't mind me asking, What specifically were you doing? Uh, that was it like just, uh, building their analytics or, or the team training that you were doing or.
Michelle: When I was with idle practices, I did a little bit of, of everything, like the training, helping them, you know, hire the right staff, discussion with like marketing, internal, external, ground marketing, setting up the systems and protocols, training the staff to make sure that everybody.
New what they were doing on opening day, right? It's not just about opening those doors and seeing patients on the first day. You want to have an excellent patient experience. As well as like, you know, some solid systems. You want them raving about you and writing that five star review. Like, wow, I can't believe this was their first day.
So, and then working with the doctor too to understand the metrics of the practice. You know, a startup is, is unique. And every startup is different. So, working with idle practices, I probably opened close to 200 startups. And I can tell you there were not two that were alike. Every doctor's vision is different.
They want to do things a little bit differently. You know, their philosophy is different. So, you know, you have to be able to adapt to that and help them support their vision.
Michael: Can you break it down for us and tell us what do we need to have in place for opening
Michelle: day? Yes. I think it's really important that you're hiring, team members and it's the appropriate amount of team members.
Uh, you can't overstaff.
so having staff, uh, team members that have experience, but not too much experience. I kind of like the 1, 1 to 5 years of experience because they have a little bit of knowledge, but they're also willing to adapt to your way. I'm not saying that somebody with 10 or 20 years of experience isn't going to be great for your practice, but they tend to like to do things their way.
And a lot of times what I have found with the younger doctors is they try to run the practice and it's not the doctor's practice. So making sure you have the right people on board and taking the time to make sure everybody is trained. Before you start seeing patients, a lot of times you, you know, you get that certificate of occupancy and you're really excited.
You're like, I got rent that I got to pay. I have bills that are coming in. I got to start seeing patients. But if you don't take the time to properly train your team. You know, it's not going to be a great patient experience and you could be losing money if they're not billing correctly. If they're not answering the phones correctly, and you're not getting the patient scheduled.
So I typically say, take 2 weeks, and it doesn't have to be 14 days, but if your office is going to be open 3 days a week to start, it's 6 days to train them, the clinical side and the administrative side, so that when you open your doors It doesn't feel like it's the first day.
Michael: So then, let's, let's rewind a little bit.
I just got the certificate of occupancy, and then I'm like, okay, now I need to start, I got like one person that I just hired that I think they're fantastic and everything. How far out should I start, like, okay, so opening day is, you know, rent's coming up, my, the contractor had so many delays, I'm already starting, my free rent's almost over, right, kind of thing.
How far out? Should we say, okay, opening day is this, I have one team member right now, who's learning open dental or Oryx, right? how do we do this now?
Michelle: I always go backwards from your anticipated opening day, right? You get the construction timeline, and I, you know, you want to make sure that you're staying constant, contact with them to make sure that there's no delays or whatever.
But we go with the anticipated opening day, and then I go back. Eight weeks. That's when you should start hiring because it takes probably a month, maybe a little bit longer to get somebody on board. They got to give two weeks notice if they're working somewhere else. You want them hired and ready to work for you two weeks before you're ready to start seeing patients.
That way you can get trained. You're answering the phones. You're getting patients scheduled. They're learning everything like the software, the phone system, you know, insurance stuff, they're getting that all ready for you. So I have seen, you know, I do, I do watch the Facebook groups. I watch a lot of this and, and I do see some doctors panic.
I'm opening next week and I don't have my staff. What am I supposed to do? it's better to start sooner. Eight weeks or so. And even if you're delayed, usually if you're in good communication with this employee, you can let them know and then they can even delay giving their notice if needed.
Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So then can you give us like a checklist? What needs to be trained? What needs to be, let's just say, okay, I want to be super confident or at least 90 percent confident tomorrow opening day. What needs to be on that checklist?
Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. Um, you definitely need software training and I require that for everybody, even if they've used the software before, because chances are they never got properly trained by your trainer and have learned like some bad habits along the way.
So everybody gets software training. you want them trained on telephone skills, how you want the phones answered, what information to be collected. You want them trained on scheduling, presenting your financial protocols. case presentation, if you're working with any third party financing companies.
You want them to have training on that. You want them to have training on the insurances. What are you in network with? Are you going to be using a company to outsource eligibility and benefits? If so, they're part of the team too. And you guys have to talk about like, how are you going to communicate and get the information over to them back and forth?
you also have to be trained like clinically, they need to know how to use the sterilization area, how to do maintenance. On the units on on the mechanical equipment, you want to make sure that your x rays are working. Nothing worse than day 1 going to take an x ray and like, nothing is set up properly and I usually recommend that you bring in a patient.
A close friend or family member to come in and that you can practice this all on. You check them in. You go through the flow. You know, if you're using Modento or next health or any of those like 3rd party ones, like, how can they fill out the forms? What is the ease of use for the patients? You check them in.
You do, an office tour. If you want to, you can get them seated. You do. Like an exam x rays and if you want to do a pro fee, make sure the handpiece works, go ahead and do a pro fee, but you're not going to go do an implant on them. You're going to do something simple to make sure you have everything you need.
And that all of your equipment is working, you check them out, you collect a payment from them, uh, you do everything that you would do with a regular patient. So you've kind of got the like first aid jitters out of the way when you're seeing this patient.
Michael: Okay, so like a rehearsal, right? Yeah, exactly.
Gotcha. So it's. Software, telephone, scheduling, case presentation, insurances, clinically, x rays, right, making sure all the tech is in the clinical side doing good, then you want to practice all of that with a new patient. Do we do any type of, also we're going to rehearse, like, internal marketing, like how to ask for reviews and things like that, or?
Michelle: Yes. Yes. I mean, there's so many things to, uh, to name off. Like, yes, definitely asking for reviews, extremely important. And one other thing I stress, is when they're answering that phone. They need to get that referral source. How did that patient hear about us? Because you're doing a lot of different marketing things when you're opening your practice and we need to know what's working a lot of the marketing agencies.
They have great tracking in their dashboards, but they really only track until the patient makes the phone call. They don't know like if the patient showed up or what your treatment plan is for them. So it's really important that every single new patient comes in the referral sources entered. Into the software.
Michael: So you put in the referral source, like let's just say, Oh, I heard you from like Michelle, right? My friend of mine who works downstairs from you or whatever and then do you also track how much treatment they? Put down.
Michelle: Yes, absolutely Okay, why? Uh, because you want to see, like, especially if it's word of mouth, that's one thing, but if you're paying marketing dollars or you're taking the time to do some of this ground marketing things, you want to see what's working.
So for example, I had an office a long time ago that before opening day, she had over 200 patients on her schedule, but she was sending out postcards offering, you know, a 59 new patient special. And what we found was a lot of those patients. They were coming in for the first visit, but they weren't scheduling their recare appointments and they weren't scheduling treatment.
They were kind of bouncing to the next office that had a special for them. So great that you had 200 patients when you opened the door, but you weren't able to retain them. Now, I also had another office that sent out postcards and said to me, Michelle, I think it was a failure. I think the campaign was a failure.
I only got six patients, but I looked at it and I said, from those six patients, you've got 35, 000 worth of treatment. So they were patients that came in and actually needed something and came back for that work. So you have to look at it both ways. You've got to track and say, like, it's not just the quantity of patients that are coming through the door, but it It's the, um, the quality of that patient.
Mm hmm.
Michael: Yeah, me personally, I'd rather have like, less but more, you know what I mean? Like, less patients, less stress, but like, they care and the quality, then a ton of them and they're like, why discounts and stuff like that. So, okay. This is a good checklist then. Now, If we were to, if we were to say, Michelle, I need you to hire the people for this.
How many people do we need for this? let's just say one has like, I need you to hire as minimal as possible. And then one's like, I don't care. There's the, hire as many as you need.
Michelle: So I always look, and I talk to the doctor about their vision too, because I ask a lot of them, are you willing to do any hygiene in the beginning, if it's a general practice or a pedo practice, right?
Are you willing to do hygiene? I have some doctors that say, yeah, I'm totally willing to do it. And I have other doctors that say like, absolutely not. So that doctor there is going to have to hire more people. Like you're probably going to need a hygienist in there. but a doctor that's willing to do some hygiene, even if it's for a couple months, you're going to save a Now, there's a big debate on this.
So, could you hire a hygienist and maybe have more production coming from the hygienist and, you know, be able to do more same day dentistry? Yes. Right now, hygienists are commanding a very large salary. And as a startup, your budget is very tight in the beginning. Working capital is, is very lean. So, that is a really personal choice on the hygienists that I would have with the doctor.
But typically, it would be one front office person and one assistant to start. I would also... Again, it depends on the doctor. Uh, what are they doing for marketing right now? I'm working with a pediatric dentist in Colorado. She's not opening until, January, like end of December, beginning of January. She had a very unique situation and people are flocking to her.
She already has 200 people on her list. She's going to events. she's not open until January. She's doing events. She's already going to pediatricians and general dentists and everything. So, in her case, we're going to need more than one front office and one assistant because we already know. And these people, they're holding out.
They know she's not opening. And they're like, we don't want to go anywhere else. We want you. Kind of followed her from a previous location. So you have to hear the story of the doctor and what they're willing to put in ahead of time to ensure that they have good patients, but a rule of thumb would be one front office person and one assistant.
And if they were both cross trained, that's a bonus.
Michael: Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. So one front, one office. Yeah. So one can worry about the clinical side. One can worry about the front, like the telephone, the scheduling, case presentation, right? And then, so forth. Now, people listening to this, not all everybody, some, we have some listeners, right?
We have a lot of listeners. But one that, let's just say, they're listening and then they're like, Ah, opening day has passed. Can you do this on like a random, like, hey, open house day, kind of thing?
Michelle: Absolutely. any of this. So if you opened your office and you didn't do all this training or you didn't do all this marketing, most startups have time in their schedule.
Most startups are not completely full. So we have time and you block it in your schedule. So there's no such thing as like downtime in a startup. If you have open time in your schedule, you're going to do marketing. You're going to get out there. You're going to see what events you can do. You're going to make TikToks and stuff for social media.
You have to use that time to do that. In addition, if you didn't have the time to spend with your team in training, you utilize that too. It's never too late to start to do that, but you have to do it.
Michael: Gotcha, gotcha. So you're kind of setting yourself on the right foot when we have the first day, right? But if the first day has already passed and we're listening to this episode now, It would be like an open house kind of day, right?
We can kind of set it up for that. So then, how would you recommend, once we're open and we're listening to this, and we want to do this, would we follow the same protocols, or how would we change it?
Michelle: Um, I would follow, like, the same checklist, but it might be a little bit different because now you're open.
So some of the things would have to be a little bit modified, a bit. But you could use that checklist as a guide to make sure that you felt solid in each of those areas.
Michael: Gotcha. What things would have to be
Michelle: modified? so ahead of time, right? We don't always know. We think something should go a certain way.
Financial protocols, for example. a lot of people now are asking for deposits. To schedule an appointment. So maybe in the beginning, we said we're gonna ask for a $200 deposit for somebody to schedule for us. But now you've been open for two weeks and you're kind of finding like, oh, well people aren't scheduling treatment 'cause we're asking for this $200.
So now you have to reevaluate that system and say like, okay, maybe a hundred dollars is better. Maybe we need to, you know, change this or, you know, this is how we're answering the phone. we thought that would work from the beginning, but we're noticing a lot of people are saying, Oh, well, let me call you back instead of actually scheduling.
We'd want to modify that. Hmm.
Michael: Okay. So little adjustments here and there that can work for you when it comes to that, the deposit. It's interesting. You brought that up. Have you seen that work? Like where it's like, Hey, we need a 200 deposit first or.
Michelle: it's a little bit tough with new patients. But new patients are the ones you probably need it the most from, because they have the highest no show rates.
so, but definitely, I have offices that, like, it's mandatory, if they want to schedule a restorative appointment and reserve time in a doctor's schedule, they have to put a deposit down. And that deposit's non refundable. So if they don't show up, it's like their cancellation fee. If they do show up, it gets applied to whatever their out of pocket expense would be.
Michael: Interesting. you, did you notice like declined, but the quality of the patient showed, or was it more like nothing changed?
Michelle: No, it definitely helps. So there's a couple of ways you can go about it. Uh, and there's probably like a whole episode that we could talk about just that. Uh, because A lot of startups, when they open, are, you know, they take a lot of insurances, right?
We want butts in the chair, so we, we do take, you know, more insurances where, than an established practice that might be trying to phase out of insurance. So if they're doing that, a hygiene appointment is typically going to be covered 100 percent by insurance. So it's hard to get a patient to put a deposit down for something that is supposed to be covered 100 percent from insurance.
So I tell everyone, start with... The restorative start with the restore or scaling and replanting because they would have a copayment for that. and you'll notice the people that put money down. They're less likely to no show unless it's something really, really major. the people that don't put anything down.
Those are the ones that, like, they just don't see that value in it, and you do see a higher no show rate with them.
Michael: How much do you recommend
Michelle: we charge? Um, it depends on the area. Uh, I have some offices I would not do less than 50. I have some offices, the majority of them do, like, 100 or 150. Um, but I do know of a few offices that I've worked with that ask for 20 percent of the procedure.
So, like, if you're doing an implant or, like, you know, a bunch of treatment, It could be a couple hundred dollars that they have to put down.
Michael: How can we deal with the, I guess the, not conflicts, but the people who are like, are you serious? I have to, I didn't do it last time. What do I have to do at this time?
Like, what's going on? How do
Michelle: we do? Well, that's why it's great. A lot of startup doctors will say, I don't want to do it because I don't want to like, you know, upset any patients. No, you have to do it from the beginning because you're setting the rules and the tone, but people have to put deposits down.
Like, When I go to get a massage, I have to put a deposit down to reserve my time with her, or like hair salons, like it's becoming more common now. So I don't see much pushback from patients. Um, the only pushback would be like, I see some people saying like, Oh, maybe we are charging too much. So let's reduce it a little bit, but people are willing to do it because they have to pay it anyways.
And then it helps the office know if somebody can't put down a hundred dollar deposit for this crown. Are they really going to follow through or be able to pay for this crowd?
Michael: Yeah, I mean, are they serious or are they just like, yeah, I'll do it right now. Right. Gotcha. Okay. That's very interesting. So then there is no script really, right?
When it comes to someone who's holding back and be like, wait, hold up. I don't want to do that. I don't want to put a deposit. I'm going to show up, but I'm not going to put a deposit down. Shouldn't my insurance cover it? Right? Like, don't they? Is there a script for that
Michelle: stuff or no? I usually just let them know we are reserving 90 minutes, two hours in the doctor's schedule.
and yes, you do have some insurance benefits to help you towards that, but it won't cover 100 percent for this type of procedure. So we do require that you pay, you know, 100 deposit, which will go towards that out of pocket expense. So when you come in next visit, like you only have to bring for that visit. Most people are fine with it. but It does take, like, if you have a staff member that's worked in an office previously that never had to ask for it, it does take a lot of training and, roleplaying it out for them to be comfortable
Michael: with it. Yeah, I would totally want to roleplay, because I can totally see a staff member being like, let's just say Michelle came in, said to do this, they do it, but you know, the staff member maybe feels like uncomfortable saying that or doing it, asking for money up front.
Yeah. And then they kind of put themselves in the shoes and they're like, I would never do that. I would never pay. You know what I mean? So I don't know why we're making them pay when, and then they tell the doctor that, and then the doctor's like, well, you know, she's a good staff member. He's a good staff member.
So how do that?
Michelle: Well, I try, I try to head that off, uh, during the interview process. Kind of talk to them about it. You know, how do you feel like we do some high end dentistry? How do you feel about collecting money from people? we're going to be asking for deposits. Is that something that you would feel comfortable with?
I'd make it part of the interview process so you know ahead of time if they're going to be, because I have run across. quite a few front office people that will say like, you know, they have a hard time selling treatment or getting the deposit because they know themselves they could never afford it or wouldn't do that.
So you have to hire people that, have the right mindset towards it. Okay. What
Michael: if they've already been, what if they're working already? They're working and everything like that. And then we're, you know, they're listening to this episode and we're going to implement the deposit. We try, but then they're like, doctor, I would never pay.
I don't know why we're making, uh, where we're doing this, you know, how do we deal with it then?
Michelle: yeah, it's a little bit of a challenge. And because if they're a good employee, like all around, and this is the one thing I think if you sit down and really explain to them why, right, a lot of employees, they have no idea why we're implementing things.
We just tell them we need to do this. So if we explain to them why and help them overcome that doubt that they have, most likely they're going to do it. When they understand, you
Michael: know, yeah, so it's kind of like be patient, take the time to talk to them.
Michelle: Cause like I said, a lot of times in dentistry, I've noticed this, like working in an office and even, you know, working with doctors, the doctors, you know, we'll just come in and say like, we're changing our policy and this is what we're doing.
And the staff just is like, oh, okay, I guess, but they don't understand why. So if we explain to them like, hey, our no shows are up a lot. Like whenever somebody doesn't show up for this appointment, we lose, you know, four or five hundred dollars. Like we want people to come in here that are going to be serious about the treatment.
Because there is a lot of people that do want to get in. And if this person isn't serious, they're holding up a spot for somebody else that could get in. When you start explaining it like that to the team members, then they're kind of like, I get it. And it's also. To charge 100 or 50 cancellation fee, like that's hard to collect.
A lot of people won't pay it and a lot of doctors just end up writing it off anyways. This way we already know that patient is serious.
Michael: Oh, so instead of charging the cancellation fee, yeah, you know what I mean? Do you believe in that or no? Do you say like, no, don't ever charge a cancellation
Michelle: fee? Um, I feel like in some circumstances it's warranted, but to me, a 50 cancellation fee is not going to deter somebody, most, most patients from it.
for me, I would rather say, like, I'm really sorry that you can't make the appointment today because our next availability isn't until December. Them not being able to get in right away hurts more than them paying 50.
Michael: Hmm. Interesting. Okay. But that, the deposit... Pulls that back a
Michelle: lot. Exactly. Exactly.
Because we say to them, like, if you don't show up or you don't give, you know, 48 hours notice, you do forfeit that deposit and you'd have to put another deposit to come in.
Michael: Oh, so double deposit. Interesting. It works. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I like that better than the cancellation policy. Interesting. Okay. So then Michelle, what can a dentist or practice owner do today to improve their marketing or business?
Michelle: Marketing, as you know, what works for one doctor does not work for every doctor. So you have to, you have to be willing to try. You have to be willing to step outside of your comfort zone. In order to do it.
And the biggest thing that I tell doctors is when you start doing something and you see it's working and all of a sudden you have an influx of patients. Every doctor tends to do this. So, like, I'm gonna take my foot off the gas pedal and I'm gonna stop doing marketing because I have too many patients right now.
And then I get a phone call. My schedule is sparse. Like, I don't have any patients. So when you find something that works. You know, whether it be sending out mailers, maybe it's going to an event at a, like a senior center or, or an apartment complex or going to the schools, whatever it is that works for you, keep doing it, just keep doing it and don't take your foot off the gas pedal because once you do that, especially in that first year of a startup, or even a first year of acquiring a practice, the second you do that, you will see it slow down.
So you need to make sure that you, you stay on top of it.
Michael: Interesting. Okay. And now these next questions are just to get into the head of someone who isn't totally involved on the clinical side of dentistry, right? What would you like to see more from a dentist? Oh,
Michelle: that's a good question. From a, from a staff perspective and being somebody that, worked both clinical and administrative when I was in there, I would love for the dentist to try to understand the administrative staff a little better, right?
They, they click with the clinical staff, the assistants, the hygienist, they know what they're supposed to be doing all day, but they don't always know what the front office team, what that administrative team is doing. So, I think, like, their tendency is to kind of hang out with the clinical team more. I think they need to hang out with the administrative team more and learn more about what goes on up there.
Michael: Hmm. Do you feel like there's a disconnect? Or something like that? A lot
Michelle: of times, you know, the, the complaint that I hear, I swear I hear from every single office or front office person, the office manager will be, he always picks on us. Like we're working so hard all day long and the phones have been ringing.
We've got patients checking in and out. We're calling insurance companies. And we literally took five minutes for us to just talk for five minutes. And they came up here and said, like, what are you doing? Why isn't my schedule full? Like, and they pick on them then. So I want them to understand, like, they are busy for the majority of the day.
Like, and everybody gets, should have a chance to take a break. But really understanding what they're doing up there. going back a little bit to the training, I truly believe that every doctor that owns their own practice should know how to schedule appointments, should know how to submit insurance claims, check benefits, post payments, because it gives them a better appreciation for what is happening up front, but also, you know, with the way, the staffing is right now, you could be left by yourself, and you should know how to do all of that stuff.
Thank you.
Michael: Yeah, that's true. That's true. Interesting. Okay. So a better appreciation for and how do you suggest we can do that? Like, do we have front office team meetings only or let's just say the practice has been running already. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, how do we, how do you recommend we get a closer, I guess, understanding
Michelle: of that?
Yeah, I actually kind of like for the whole team to do something like, uh, You know, walk a day in my shoes kind of thing like sit up here with me so that you can see what I'm doing and just like I say to administrative team members like a lot of them don't have a clinical background. So when they're talking about treatment or understanding of schedule, they don't really know what's going on.
So I tell them, like, go in the back. Watch them do a crown prep. Watch them do an extraction. Watch them do this so you have a better understanding of it. So yes, administrative team meetings or just like if there's downtime for the doctor to sit up there and kind of get an understanding, ask them, ask the team, show me how you check benefits or show me how you, enter the insurance in there or show me how you post a payment.
Michael: Gotcha. So day in the shoe. I like that. I like that a lot. And then right now. What do you hate or dislike about dentistry?
Michelle: Honestly, the thing that I hate about dentistry or dislike the most is, and I know our listeners might be some actual like staff members, so I don't want to offend anybody, but I feel like the doctors are being like held hostage.
By the team, they're demanding very high salaries and there's so many people looking for staff members that like they're poaching people or like they're willing to offer the world and these startup practices, these small private practices are like, I can't afford these people or I'm just gonna have to keep paying them and sacrifice something else because I need good team members.
I don't like that that has happened in this industry.
Michael: Yeah. Well, how are you seeing, I guess, like your clients or you yourself, like, how are they kind of combating this?
Michelle: It depends on the situation. Every doctor is, is different. You know, I was with somebody earlier this week. That's like whatever they asked for.
I'm just going to give it to them because they're really good and I can't afford to lose them. And then I have another doctor that's like. I can't afford it. So I'm probably going to lose them and I'm going to have to hire somebody that has like little to no experience and train them because I can't afford the higher salaries.
So, it just depends on the situation.
Michael: So some people would just bite the bullet and do it. Yeah. And some people have to still stick with it. Because I've seen that. I've seen that in some practices where they're like, yeah, it's just, we're so tight. I have nobody who can do anything else, right? Like, there's nothing left.
It's a real tight team. Yeah. So yeah, I understand that. And then right now, what do you love about dentistry?
Michelle: Um, I think it's what I've loved like always about dentistry is just like, I love how caring The doctors are, they have the biggest, kindest hearts. They want to do everything for their teams. They want to do everything for the patients.
And I feel like it's a little bit to a fault sometimes, right? But I just feel like everything that is going on in the industry, like the challenges that we're facing, doctors, at least the ones that I've been working with, the passion that they have to make sure that they take great care of their patients and their team.
That's what I love. about it. It's why, like, I feel like I never work a day in my life because I just, I talk to these doctors and it makes me happy every time I get off the phone with them.
Michael: That's good. And then what needs to change in your opinion for people, the general population, to be more open to dentistry?
Michelle: Yeah, they need to get out of this insurance, dental insurance mindset because it is not, it is not insurance, right? It's a, it's a coupon or something with a lot of restrictions. It's there to help them towards the cost of treatment, not cover everything like medical insurance does or car insurance. And the patients, if the public were better educated on that, I think it would help a lot in dentistry.
We'd be able to sell more treatment to patients, uh, we'd be, you know, less stressed out about it because the doctors wouldn't be stressing about, I have to stay in network or else I'll lose all these patients. They could go out of network and get reimbursed higher. So I wish that there was something out there to educate the patients a little bit more on what the dental benefit really is.
Michael: Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's like a forever coupon, right? As long as the patient has it, it's always gonna continue to... How do you think we can start doing that then, in your opinion? How can we start? Educating the patients just like every patient that comes in. We talked to them about it or
Michelle: you can talk to the patients. A lot of offices do that, especially when they offer like a membership plan because they can say they can compare it. you're paying this much because patients don't know how much they're paying for their dental insurance because right if it gets automatically deducted from your paycheck, you don't know really.
How much you're paying towards it and showing them like, well, but this is what you're getting for benefits, but. You can only have 2 of these a year, or like this, you can only have done once every 5 years, or, the frequency limits. There's a lot of limitations there. the other thing, that offices do are, I have some offices do is like some of the larger employers in the area.
If they connect with the HR department, they can go in and talk to the team and start, like, explaining, like, this is the plans that you're being offered. By your employer. Let me explain it a little bit more in detail how it would work in a dental office for you.
Michael: Yeah, that's true. I think whenever we do like a lunch and learn or like, you know, the senior citizen home strategy or a lot of these other strategies where we're talking with even like a hotels, right?
We're talking to employees. And we get to the Q and a section of it, right of the presentation or whatever, like any questions or concerns, right? Sometimes the whole presentation is just questions. 90 percent of all of them are just like about insurance. It's all insurance. So the doctor's even like, why am I here?
I should have like, I was ready to talk about implants, but my front office should have came right and talked about this. So it's uh, it's interesting. Interesting how many of them, you know what I mean, are like, does my insurance cover this? What if I have this? Last time I tried to go in here and it didn't cover it.
So it's more of that stuff.
Michelle: Yeah. And for the patients to understand, like, just because a doctor is not in network does not mean they can't go to that doctor. 99 percent of the PPO dental plans allow you to see an out of network provider. And they just need to understand, like, what that means. so I think it's really like, I wish we could, you know, put something together for like all patients out there, like a news thing, a documentary, like something, a Netflix original , just , like dental insurance.
It's great because it will help you towards the cost of treatment, but it's not there. Like medical insurance, you don't pay your $50 copayment and they cover everything else.
Michael: Yeah, it's a whole different, different type of insurance. It's coupon. Like you said, Yeah. Alrighty, Michelle, thank you so much for being with us.
It's been a pleasure, but before we say goodbye, can you tell our listeners where they can find you?
Michelle: Sure. You can check out my website, which is, uh, affinity management. com. or you can email me directly, michelle at affinity management. com. And they can also find me on social media, Instagram, and Facebook.
Uh, just look at Michelle Affinity Management.
Michael: Okay, affinity. Is it affinity because of Afanato? Oh, a little bit,
Michelle: yes. Okay, okay. And an affinity for my love of dentistry.
Michael: Yeah, I gotcha. Okay, okay. Because I was thinking that right now when you said that.
Michelle: Well, and the AM, the Affinity Management, Michelle Afanato.
The AM reversed.
Michael: Oh, yeah. Okay, there was some thought into it then. Interesting. Interesting. Awesome, Michelle. Thank you so much. And guys, that's going to be in the show notes below. So definitely check it out. And thank you so much, Michelle, for being with us. It's been a pleasure. And we'll hear from you soon.
Michelle: Thank you for having me.
